Got fed up at the stealership, paying $9.00 a quart to do my own ATF flush. So, I went to my local Pep Boys store, and found some Castrol that said "Multivehicle" ATF. Right on the bottle it said that it was recommended for use where ever Nissan Matic "J" is prescribed. Went home, went to Castrol's website, and it said the same thing on their product data sheets. My stealership charges $500.00 for a 30K service, I'll do it myself. It's a days pay saved if I do it.

Castrol may say its the same as Nissan J, but Nissan doesn't say that. Using anything other than Nissan J will void the warranty on the transmission.

It's a days pay saved if I do it.
Hmmm, I wish that was a days pay for me. ;)

I payed $90.00 for my flush at the dealership!

dude if i made $500 a day i woundnt change my own underware

I won't say what the Nissan tranny fluid actually costs because there are parts people that need to make a living, but $500 is ridiculous. $150 is the absolute most I would pay for a tranny flush including the flush kit. In fact that is what my last complete flush cost me. $149.95. The one I had at 30,000 miles cost me $99 for a flush.

On another thread, I was asked to call my Castrol rep to see about the Transmax J Fluid. Here is what I was told. ( I have a commercial account, buying various fluids for a small fleet)

"Transmax J meets Nissan Standards but is not recommended by Nissan. We do recommend it. However, it is no longer available, we now recommend the Universal Trans fluid which is widely available in the consumer market."

Question: Since Moss-Magnuson requires acceptance of compatiable parts/filters/oils etc. Is Nissan required to provide free Trans Fluid? If not, why?

No offense to anyone, but I'm getting really tired of people saying this or that will void your warranty. The Magnison-Moss Warranty Act prevents manfacturers from voiding warranties if you are using a product that complies with factory specifications. Several companies make Nissan Matic J compatable fluid. The ones that full comply are Subaru ATF-HP, Idemitsu ATF-HP, Castrol Transmax J or Pennzoil ATF-J.

I believe you have to buy it in bulk, but this site sells one of the fluids.
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/item.asp?n=2840-042&d=19&b=1

Several sources believe that the Castrol Transmax J fluid is what Nissan rebottles and sells.

However, several people have used this "Castrol Multi-Vehicle ATF" and had some issues. Nissan Matic J fluid is synthetic or very close to it. This gives it the ability not to break down while in servere service like towing heavy loads. It also has special amounts of friction modifiers to make the clutches in the tranny engauge properly. I do not believe the Castrol Multi-Vehicle ATF is stout enough to not deteriorate in the transmission. It's not synthetic. It's also thicker at opperational temperatures than Matic J. That could cause a problem but not likely.

You do not need to give this advice to people and mislead them. It could cost them thousands of dollars that some people do not have.

The magnusson moss act will not protect you in this case. Here is why. The magnusson moss act does not allow a company to tell you that you MUST use their parts or fluids. They state that IF an OEM equivalent is available that you can use it. No one has been able to PROVE that they have an equivalent to Nissan's fluids. Only claim it on websites. I have called two companies requesting in writing that nothing will happen to my transmission if their fluid is used in place of the J and they refused!

Now the problem with the difference in fluids is one ingredient. Since you know so much about it, let us know what it is and what the function is without doing any kind of search. I will give a hint, it has to do with the metal that the internals are made of.

I have an idea. I had to do lots of tests to prove myself around here, how about you do the same. The tranny's are made to last 300,000 miles or more. How about you put some different fluid in your transmission and give us reports. After all since you profit "$300,000 from a single home sale", own a "fleet of F150's" and own a "6-figure toy", tearing up a transmission would be nothing to you. Go get it done, get an analysis of the tranny fluid and your mileage and post the sample. Then get it flushed with a valid receipt and then get an analysis done every 5,000 miles and show the report. That way we can look at the contents.

After doing this, you could gladly prove us wrong. Wouldn't that be fun.:)

At 30,000 miles I plan to put Amsoil ATF in and give her a run anyway. All the said fluids are listed as meeting Matic J specifications. My guess as to why Castrol Transmax J is no longer produced for US consumption is that Nissan told them they wanted to sell it exclusively.

Both Nissan and Subaru utilize this fluid. The Subaru transmissions are nowhere near as picky as ours, but they want the same stuff. Spend some time over at some Scooby sites. This discussion comes up ever 5 minutes.

I really don't think any of the above mention fluids are going to eat yellow metals BTW. Nobody would claim Matic J compatability if they knew it was going to eat a tranny.

The bottom line is the warning in every Nissan Owners Manual and Service Manual.
See the attachment.
I don't care what anyone else puts in their transmission. But I'm sure not going to use a fluid that could cost me thousands of dollars if there is a transmission failure, just to save a few dollars on a fluid change.

At 30,000 miles I plan to put Amsoil ATF in and give her a run anyway.

Amsoil ATF specifically says not for Nissan Matic J transmissions.

The bottom line is the warning in every Nissan Owners Manual and Service Manual.
See the attachment.
I don't care what anyone else puts in their transmission. But I'm sure not going to use a fluid that could cost me thousands of dollars if there is a transmission failure, just to save a few dollars on a fluid change.
O......K......

My F-150's booklet says to use only Ford MERCON fluid. Am I only supposed to go to Ford for transmission service?

Nissan Matic J is a specification. Nissan can't make you use only "Genuine Nissan Matic J" fluid to maintain warranty. Law dictates that they have to provide it for free if they do. In addition, last I checked, Nissan doesn't own any refineries and they don't sell crude oil. I bet you a million dollars one of the fluids I mentioned is the fluid that Nissan rebottles and sells. So if I don't use the "Genuine" fluid, and buy the same stuff in another brand's bottle it's some how supposed to void my warranty? It's ILLEGAL...

Castrol Transmax J and Pennzoil ATF-J were designed specifically to meet Matic J specifications. They also happen to cover some other specs as well. The problem is when someone makes a fluid for MERCON or another spec and thinks it's OK to recommend it for Matic J. This would be the case for Castrol MultiVehicle.

Someone show me evidence that the above mentioned fluids don't meet the specifications. If they advertise that they meet it and cause damage, they can be held liable for false advertising. Two companies called Lube Control and Specialty Formulations are actually working on additives that you can add to Dexron III fluid in order to make it into Matic J. This would allow service shops to use one type of fluid, but service many different specifications. It's done all the time for Dexron IV.

BTW, if I replace all 6 of my Fords with Titans, saving some money on each tranny change with a comparable or superior fluid can save a pretty penny. I'm not going to buy a fleet of vehicles that require me to go to a stealership every 30,000 miles in order to get raped on a fluid flush.

Amsoil fluid meets and exceeds most of the criteria for the Matic J specs. From my understanding, the friction modifiers are a little different and it is slightly thicker at operational temperatures. However, the difference between 7.5 and 6.0 centistokes is fairly negligable. On a cold start it is about 100 cSt. It's not like the tranny only sees one temperature across the world. Fluid thickness will dynamically vary anyways. I don't think it will eat any metal either. The ability to meet over 30 different specifications is slightly indicative of this.

I think all of this is just Nissan making sure that you don't put fluid that doesn't meet their specs into the tranny at a quicklube place. Matic J is simply newer to the market. More and more companies will make it as time progresses. The same discussion last year yielded only a 1 or 2 alternatives and now we have at least 4.

Most new Infiniti's and Nissan trucks use Matic J now. Subaru is switching over too.

P.S. To answer your question Shaily, GL-5 gear lube will eat copper which is contained in brass. This is why many vehicles still specify GL-4 gear lube when GL-5 is actually the tougher specification. I don't think a quality synthetic automatic tranny fluid is going to do this by any means.

This is a great discussion and debate. As a admin of CT, I do want to remind all members that we at CT do not recommend using anything other then the Nissan Matic J. It may be perfectly fine using the other stuff, but don't do so thinking the forum backs this decision.

Couple things to add. Just because someone like Castrol bottles Nissan Matic J fluid doesn't mean that Nissan doesn't have them change the formulation to meet the needs of the tranny. Don't know what that would be, but it happens.
Since Amsoil backs all of their products with a warranty stating they will replace anything that fails because of their products the fact that Matic-J is excluded from this is pretty indicative that Amsoil knows that it won't work. If it was close enough to get by without any problems as you claim, I would think they would go ahead and include it and stand behind it.
I'd love for there to be an alternative to the $9 a bottle Nissan fluid when it comes time to service my tranny but until someone comes out with a product and will put it in writing that it works for the Matic J I'll go with the Nissan brand.

All I have to say is I look forward to the results. But after you change your fluids, you better take a look at it within a couple of thousand miles. You will see a very distinct discoloration...black.

I will go on record, saying that I hope that I am wrong. I don't want anyone's tranny to go out especially just to try and save a few dollars. But for someone that owns a $100,000 car, I cant imagine risking $6,000 just to save $45.

I called one of the AMSOIL technical guys at corporate. He flat out told me that they don't have a product that is equivalent to Nissan Matic J. As much as I like Amsoil's stuff, I won't put it in my tranny. They do have a product equivalent to the Nissan Matic "D", and one that will work in the differential.

It is the Amsoil ATFmentioned above that is compatible with "d".

Other people's fluids have turned black because they have been cooked or filled with clutch material. One reason is the fact that Matic J is a semi-synthetic and many alternatives aren't. On the other side, a lack of friction modifiers makes the clutch packs fail to sync up quickly enough. The clutch packs wear out and the fluid heats up. Black fluid is a certainty

A PAO based fully synthetic fluid will be much more stable than the Matic J. To make up for any FM's that are missing, I'm going to attempt to put some manual transmission syncronizer friction modifiers in. You can buy it in a little bottle. It allows you to use quality gear oil in a manual transmission that needs some friction to sync up gears when granny shifting gears.

If I'm going to pay $10 for a quart of transmission fluid, it should be made by God himself. Amsoil ATF is less than $8 per quart when purchased in big pails with the prefered membership. It's also some of the best stuff on the market.

It's almost as rediculous as the $80 per liter Shell Ultra Helix 5w60 lubrication that Ferrari recommends for the Enzo. First of all, it's a group III synthetic which makes it inferior for high temperature opperation in comparison to a comparable group IV cocktail. Secondly, one gentleman found it to shear back to a 40 weight after only a couple thousand miles. No surprise with such a wide ratio spread. Ferrari only recommends it because of their racing sponsorship with Shell. Needless to say, several people have gotten as good or better results with over the counter Mobil 1. It's called price gouging and that's exactly what is being done to us.

I know Amsoil doesn't give their blessing. They have a warranty on their fluids and I doubt they would want to be liable for any messed up trucks. Hence their ill-recommendation. I know I won't have their protection, but I will at least have some useful data to share with everyone.

*edit* Yes it's compatable with D.

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx

You do not need to give this advice to people and mislead them. It could cost them thousands of dollars that some people do not have.

The magnusson moss act will not protect you in this case. Here is why. The magnusson moss act does not allow a company to tell you that you MUST use their parts or fluids. They state that IF an OEM equivalent is available that you can use it. No one has been able to PROVE that they have an equivalent to Nissan's fluids. Only claim it on websites. I have called two companies requesting in writing that nothing will happen to my transmission if their fluid is used in place of the J and they refused!

Now the problem with the difference in fluids is one ingredient. Since you know so much about it, let us know what it is and what the function is without doing any kind of search. I will give a hint, it has to do with the metal that the internals are made of.

I have an idea. I had to do lots of tests to prove myself around here, how about you do the same. The tranny's are made to last 300,000 miles or more. How about you put some different fluid in your transmission and give us reports. After all since you profit "$300,000 from a single home sale", own a "fleet of F150's" and own a "6-figure toy", tearing up a transmission would be nothing to you. Go get it done, get an analysis of the tranny fluid and your mileage and post the sample. Then get it flushed with a valid receipt and then get an analysis done every 5,000 miles and show the report. That way we can look at the contents.

After doing this, you could gladly prove us wrong. Wouldn't that be fun.:)
Shailey;

I hope Im not the one who "owns a fleet of F-150's" as I was simply reporting what Castrol said. Certainly did not intend to endorse non Nissan J fluids. (Besides, we drive GMC's at work)

I completely agree with your statement above and will not ever take a chance on a fluid that Castrol says Nissan does not approve of. (A statement that dumbfounded me when I was told this by their rep). Good followup to the Mfg, not backing up their claims like they need too. Castrol embarassed themselves on this from my perspective.

UPDATE: Reread all post, I'm sure I'm not the F150 fleet owner now, whew.......sorry Shailey.

Other people's fluids have turned black because they have been cooked or filled with clutch material.

I look forward to your results. I am not going to argue, it is pointless because you know more than anyone else on this board, in fact you know more than the companies, their engineers and their chemists do about their own product. :)

Blanket statements that using a different type of fluid will void your warranty on the transmission are wrong. Nissan can only legitimately reject your claim under the warranty if they can show that you did something to cause the failure. That said, I have no idea if using a different brand of fluid can cause the transmission to fail. I doubt it.

I'm not making a blanket statement. If you will look on page 8-11 of your owners manual you will see the attached warning. I am not going to risk having a transmission problem that Nissan won't repair under warranty just to save a couple of dollars per quart of fluid. That is my choice. Everyone else makes their their own choice.

This is a nice thread...lol

I can attest to the using different fluid will void the trans warranty. I had a trans charged bak because they said it was contaminated with the wrong trans fluid. I stead of going after the customer for the $4000.00 repair we just wrote it off. But we could have gone after the cust.

Shailey, SCR, BIXLL, et al: Stick to your guns guys, I never could figure out those custom blended home remedies. I'm having a home cooked meal with some friends tonight, should be at least 5 dollars less than eating out. I'm satisfied with that.

:money-big:


Savings vs. exposure (liability/risk) is the problem, pride the killer.

I'm not making a blanket statement. If you will look on page 8-11 of your owners manual you will see the attached warning. I am not going to risk having a transmission problem that Nissan won't repair under warranty just to save a couple of dollars per quart of fluid. That is my choice. Everyone else makes their their own choice.

Regardless of what the owners manual says, if there really is a fluid out there that is the same as Nissan J they can't legally deny your warranty claim when the fluid had nothing to do with the failure of the transmission. They might try, but if push came to shove they would lose.

However, I agree with you in that it probably isn't worth saving a couple of bucks when nobody seems to know for sure if these other fluids are equivalent to Nissan J.

My point was, that it isn't correct to say that just because you used a different transmission fluid you have kissed your warranty goodbye. That seemed to be the gist of some of the original posts.

Blanket statements that using a different type of fluid will void your warranty on the transmission are wrong. Nissan can only legitimately reject your claim under the warranty if they can show that you did something to cause the failure. That said, I have no idea if using a different brand of fluid can cause the transmission to fail. I doubt it.

For one, it being a 5 speed automatic transmission is one of the reasons for this. There are not many ATF fluids that are safe to use with a 5 speed auto, call the ATF companies yourself and ask them. Do not take our word on it. Get it in writing and change your fluid.

Two, the metals that are used on internals are NOT compatible with a couple of ingredients that are in the other fluids out there. By the way I am still waiting on our resident chemist to answer what they are. This metal WILL BREAK DOWN if these chemicals are used. It is not hard to understand. There was a post just a couple of months ago where someone used a different trans fluid and within 14,000 miles it was black.

I have been with Nissan for over 10 years and I can assure you, Nissan will deny a warranty claim if it has the wrong fluids in it and legally they can. They have been sued over it before and they won and here is how. Since they have put it in writing in the owners manual and you have access to the owners manual before buying it, it is like agreeing with a contract. Yes, if there is an equivalent you can use it without problem UNTIL an analysis proves that it was the cause for failure. This is the problem, I have contacted two companies myself and they said over the phone, sure it will work, but would not put it in writing that their fluid will NOT cause failure and they could be held responsible.

For one, it being a 5 speed automatic transmission is one of the reasons for this. There are not many ATF fluids that are safe to use with a 5 speed auto, call the ATF companies yourself and ask them. Do not take our word on it. Get it in writing and change your fluid.

Two, the metals that are used on internals are NOT compatible with a couple of ingredients that are in the other fluids out there. By the way I am still waiting on our resident chemist to answer what they are. This metal WILL BREAK DOWN if these chemicals are used. It is not hard to understand. There was a post just a couple of months ago where someone used a different trans fluid and within 14,000 miles it was black.

I have been with Nissan for over 10 years and I can assure you, Nissan will deny a warranty claim if it has the wrong fluids in it and legally they can. They have been sued over it before and they won and here is how. Since they have put it in writing in the owners manual and you have access to the owners manual before buying it, it is like agreeing with a contract. Yes, if there is an equivalent you can use it without problem UNTIL an analysis proves that it was the cause for failure. This is the problem, I have contacted two companies myself and they said over the phone, sure it will work, but would not put it in writing that their fluid will NOT cause failure and they could be held responsible.

I don't think we are disagreeing with one another. If using a different kind of fluid causes your transmission to fail, then they can deny your warranty claim. My argument only applies if there is some other fluid sold at Autozone that is the same as Nissan J. Apparently, there may not be another transmission fluid that is equivalent to Nissan J.

I have been with Nissan for over 10 years


I knew you had inside information to Nissan! :-)

Regardless of what the owners manual says, if there really is a fluid out there that is the same as Nissan J they can't legally deny your warranty claim when the fluid had nothing to do with the failure of the transmission. They might try, but if push came to shove they would lose.

However, I agree with you in that it probably isn't worth saving a couple of bucks when nobody seems to know for sure if these other fluids are equivalent to Nissan J.

My point was, that it isn't correct to say that just because you used a different transmission fluid you have kissed your warranty goodbye. That seemed to be the gist of some of the original posts.


don't you read? they can, they will and they tell you. it is part of the contract you sign when you buy your vehicle. the warranty is part of that overal package.

doesn't matter if it is equivalent, it cannot be. it is a proprietary nissan fluid and they have the absolute right to roast a stingy customer who wanted to save 10$ and roasted a 6k transmission.

you would figure they have tested it before they wrote what will happen when you use the wrong fluid.

And they will test it, too. We send out fluid samples for testing as part of the claim process. We take 3 samples. One that we have tested, one that goes to Nissan for their testing and we keep one in case we need to for the customer to take a sample from (that is not required, it is for our own protection). If we don't, Nissan will deny claims.

Since this is in the owners manual, you are accepting the terms that they give you. You have full access to the manual before you buy. Funny thing is, most people don't read it AFTER they buy it, let alone before. LOL

It's been a couple weeks now and no answer to what the metal is and the chemical in ATF that will break it down. So Shailey, can you let us in on the answer?

Interesting conflict of materials. I don't recall hearing of this before from my extrememly limited exposure to metallurgy as a welder. Looking forward to getting an education here. Since you say it is obvious, then I'd suppose the metal is no skunk works secret. Thanks. :)

First of all, I never said it was obvious. All I did say was that it was not hard to understand, meaning that it was not hard to understand that it does not work. http://www.clubtitan.org/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

But sulfur is the trick here. Any sulfur compounds (sulfur hexaflouride in particular) will corrode the internals on this tranny as well as any others that use a "yellow metal" (and teflon o-rings), which is used in most automatic transmissions.

is everyone doing their first transmission flush at 30k? and just checking it regularly before that?

thanks!

don't you read? they can, they will and they tell you. it is part of the contract you sign when you buy your vehicle. the warranty is part of that overal package.

doesn't matter if it is equivalent, it cannot be. it is a proprietary nissan fluid and they have the absolute right to roast a stingy customer who wanted to save 10$ and roasted a 6k transmission.

you would figure they have tested it before they wrote what will happen when you use the wrong fluid.

If you use a different fluid and it roast your transmission, then that fluid must not be an equivalent. You guys are missing my point.

What if Nissan told you that you can only use gas from Chevron? If you use gas from Exxon, Texaco, or Valero your warranty on the engine is void. I don't care if it said this in the owners manual or not. They could not legally enforce this provision because it doesn't make any differene what kind of gas you use. The same thing applies to transmission fluid if they really are the same. I don't know whether there is any other fluid that is the same as Nissanmatic J. Somebody else said there were other fluids out there that are the same as the Nissan stuff.

Wow I just go to nissan buy the fluid and a gasket and change it myself. It cost me around $78 dollars to do it myself, and I keept all my reciepts from nissan if there is a problem I have proof.

That is the safest way to do it.

And you Save $$$$$

Wow I just go to nissan buy the fluid and a gasket and change it myself. It cost me around $78 dollars to do it myself, and I keept all my reciepts from nissan if there is a problem I have proof.

Not such a good deal as far as I am concerned. I had mine flushed and refilled at the dealer for $92.00!!! No fuss, no muss or mess. It is on record I had it done, they did the work, well worth the $14.00 to me?

I just don't have the time during the week to drop it off at the dealer. So on my day off Sunday it took me about 2 hrs to due the oil and transmission fluid and I saved $$

Not such a good deal as far as I am concerned. I had mine flushed and refilled at the dealer for $92.00!!! No fuss, no muss or mess. It is on record I had it done, they did the work, well worth the $14.00 to me? That's a real good price for a tranny flush. Try 99-149 at a jiffy lube for a regular automatic trans service. I'll give the dealer a shout when I'm due.

Hey I have replaced tranny fluid twice I have 47K. Both times it was $200 at dealer. I'm pretty sure they got like 8 bottles in both times I'd have to check docs. Did I get taken? Isn't the $92 a drop pan and fill with 4 bottles?

i got the supposed "flush" today but what they consider a flush today isnt really a flush at all, more like a drop the pan and change 4 quarts of fluid coulda done this my damn self and saved 100 bucks, man was i pissed when the service manager told me they don't do a true transmission flush on the nissan 5 speed transmissions cause it'd take 16-18 quarts to fully flush the transmission and 13.00 a quart plus the 2-3 hrs of labor it'd easily be over 400 bucks..
so lesson learned don't trust the dealer do it in your drive way and save your self a 100 bucks and do the same thing they do..

my dealer charges 162 plus a 25 dollar shop fee and tax....i just dropped the pan and changed 5 quarts.....

mine was 162.00 with tax also no shop fee though, man they don't call them stealerships for nuthing..

Thats why I do it myself. They want to much money and I don't have the time to wast at the dealership.

I am learning to LOVE my dealership all over again!!!

Well Hmmmm.... $208 total and they would not lie on the invoice would they? They charged me for 10 bottles and a gasket kit both times. I need to call them out on that then but only if I know that it is physically impossible to get 10 out of it.

the manager i talked to today said they have to hook up hoses to the transmission to do the complete flush.. i guess you could ask them if they disconnected hoses, hehe

As Toomny said, a complete flush requires a machine that connects to the cooler lines and pumps the fluid out. That is how they get a complete change.

I've been looking at Amsoil's Penzoil's and Castrol's web pages for their ATF specs. Amsoil and Penzoil do not sell a fluid that they claim meets Matic J specs and in fact both specifically exclude it. Castrol claims that their Multivehicle ATF is "reccomended" for use in the Matic J spec. I'm a little cautious about that though because on the product data sheet while it specifically claims to meet the warranty requirements of Dexron III Mercon, Mercon V, and Allison C-4 specs it is only reccomended for use in the Nissan.

Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here but I've found that is exaclty what lawyers tend to do and personally I'd want to see in writing that the Fluid met Nissan Matic J specs before I used it. If someone can find a fluid that the maker claims meets the Matic J spec then fine but I've yet to find one myself.

I would not want to risk voiding the warranty for a couple of $ BUT I thought this was interesting. Scroll to the bottom and look at the applications list http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx
it clearly states Nissan D, J and K. I don't have a problem taking my truck to the dealer to have them change my trany fluid if this will insure my warranty but I enjoy working on my titan and if I can do something myself, such as changing fluid (not a true flush) than I would prefer to.

gottitan can said he can get the amsoil atf fluid for 7.00 each much much cheaper than 13bucks quart..

So, the guys that changed there own fluid there is no filter to replace? I only heard mention of a gasket and oil.
James

Nissan does not run a refinery/lube plant ; they buy their fluids from the lowest bidder that meets their spec. When I worked in Amoco R&D, GM, Ford, Chrysler (I don't remember others), sent in their specs. Amoco would blend up something ; the mfgr would send there specialist ( usually with his calibrated car or trans to put in an Amoco car) he drives it for shift feel. They might make an addition. Then if cheap enough , Amoco sells tank cars of oil. In this case Amoco knows more about blending the oil the the manufacturer. Do you think Amoco could make an equivalent under their own brand?

amsoil now meets and exceeds matic j specs....the titan has no filter in the trans and i have reused the gasket twice now with no leaks.... in my honest opinion amsoil makes superior products.....