I received my Throttle Body Spacer from Kevin Wilson (Marketing Director for AIRAID) yesterday and just couldn't resist the opportunity to put it right on, nice weather an all... :D The timing was perfect too because I was running on fumes and wanted to start this test with a full tank.

Installation was straight forward, it took me 45 minutes to install this Spacer but that was taking photos and notes too. In reality it should take less then 30 minutes to install one.

Tools Needed:

1. 5mm Allen wrench/hex socket.
2. 10mm socket and ratchet.
3. Vaseline
4. For Volant Owners: 2 Thin 5/16" washers.

As for initial impressions, I really like it!! We drove 50 miles last night to go out and eat and I personally think it's really nice.

There is barely an audible whooshing noise just as the throttle plate is opened, although it's nothing you'll notice with the radio playing or while cruising down the highway.

Off the line it does feel more responsive, higher rpms feel unaffected. I wish I had some sort of technical data for you because I'm not a fan of subjective "seat of the pants" increases, but I really couldn't think of way to provide you all with hard data on the idle to 3K rpm scale grunt. I will say this, the darn little thing works.

Also I filled up last night right after I installed it and got a very common 13.97 mpg. This is really the part I'm curious about because it's the only function of this Spacer where I CAN provide some hard data for everyone.

Well time to make a hasty exit, I've got my sons basketball game to go to. I'll check back in later on this afternoon and see anyone has a questions. Oh yeah, you can always go to my pixagogo site to get better pictures then you see here. They are not sized down over there.

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2a2!QFuVqhNulvLN8p8O!Xw8cHiand94u5Jgay7 oDVtKMzxPqulLYs1viSpq1TBOSSZiGVP1HMBVdZjJwfuoxrkSs HMT82wZmToJZtPRaGftw__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_01.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2bYvW3rfavkyfarVvdqdZxzfVAmpHLJBjUHX4ah eZWnIyUYBzmZyOrn20fmsfeXSleVOXXDLFvs8bJbP3txrMtB8t JXwluSCmtBpZrzo7Evmg__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_02.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2ZMGZynoC-B9dY9vdlMTnSx0JkEC1-TVXZYk1hJLItCOUJlZY3TsZSJEPlFcApLuPUx5zg2SxK-8KvYcN!Ip0fJZvvZIvZOYrlfxjWDVDnhjg__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_03.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2biPdk4346sOahL0zK0aEpweLmKhm4r8!jG53MF NgR45FAJkO83yEMUm4K5t7YetGLs3OorkGAGHzg7O7!T5TrdxD u6ihCC15Z-253ZkC0U!A__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_04.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2ZK6tS6oZuLGHa0nM7DvAs4IpaGtBkLxiZe-T62h2SBHBlCIJFsP!VJaD7Ji044GidYuIL!8TYGL4WnOazfgsL OMktaZ1gTV5JStae53sUbyQ__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_05.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2ZSSURL5xoLUrx89nat9u5JtyRvH4T1t1W83gTR M93xE4kx5G66ssEkzI04OWhYn7icbX62z-mBAow7cFHM-7tADORGcoNaK2Vs-RQZQOcQfQ__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_06.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2Y6m-EmwO6IVSWB7ZgEy!BsTrDgmWvs1LUoFqMxcmG6yYpsWamvLqut vsyKR9Dvx-F37NF8grtoI10FxJsxGpti8W8OdIE6g7d0pCxtv-0dJw__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_07.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2asOU1UQ-EUeBWn9Qqxa9cj37b80H9yX6i8F8fJlSIFUvt1bDci8YATTEm4 RD938Ln0ZBgOot7kU9btDIpDQbbepU3weG6-Yus30bRaqQJiUw__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_08.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2bcbOlPnapbr8miOqAbcSg0D01lo1e2yp0YYZfM olll0BsFD6!QE2aN7yb4SL!pU!PpejxqDFrukSWSXZSm9NlzIs jiHniUNKSe-DdZQ6SpvQ__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_09.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2bD!4mGFqEi05wIaaP4Dal9pHwi1L7CrCdBaaVP Hzsj0rRjegzyEGZAAjkk0SzM0h649qeHAat5kpgizEijVlvr0n OqMklJZCfQi2dgumyhQg__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_10.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2Y-OVTYjMnBKUruevTbQxOr0Fw!Q2E7bchNP4JwCue1FGNgMpd4UU 0UcW2RKVdY5bnHNzXQ3X2ZfZwBuclJt7vBP6P2obBia7qjv!dK bHPLvQ__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_11.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2aqpytTcFa5n7P-eHZYLZsoglEMlbKbK2yASEwrV-12p-fjjPzOg!KTgm0YTdt6yoP7g8tJtvh9un3l8yT0MlRK4mLaWGJC E39ibW-Igij2ig__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_12.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2a9MruJegcViegthxGNmQCXlm5-UDigC8JWvQ-TEJkgHtcrozpdtbQjP4CGryq-k!K3KJ9RtpXe1MNlfM-WV8lNLXPkPqhN1OvYRg5q6uJYdg__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_13.jpg

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2Z1v9q2d0ZRqDeiiMvjpKUlHmFjbcaI1BXkRaZI w-upGL8uK-Cd2BfLAs53zZzEi2z!n5Yojmpn76RWE96qavwdsLMVswtKJDsl r4BEAV7jCQ__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_14.jpg

Looks great Dale. But do us a favor, go ahead and rack miles up this weekend, cant wait to see if there is any improvement on mpg's :P .........

Good deal Dale Keep us all posted. Lots of people dont give anything a chance. Who knows there may be some benefit. I definately do not want to label it anything before hearing back from you later.
M4ck

I too like to keep an open mind when it comes to different mods. Some mods you can tell are going to be good, but there are also some that remain kind of a mystery, and those are the ones that typically get hammered because no one really knows any facts on them.

I've been doing lots of driving since I installed it last night and will be doing more all weekend. There's a pretty good chance I'll need to fill up either tomorrow night or Monday so I should have some mpg numbers for you all soon.

Actually this morning I drove about 100 miles round trip to my sons basetball game, and thankfully it doesn't whistle like crazy like others have reported when installed on other makes of vehicles. I'm sure the whistling issue is different for each model it's used on but thankfully it's barely audible with our Titans, and only after the throttle plate cracks open. It's quiet all other times including wide open and part throttle.

I CAN'T WAIT TO FILL'ER UP!!

I CAN'T WAIT TO FILL'ER UP!!

You won't catch me saying that...

:)

Just a couple questions Dale.
1. Is it the increased air coming through that is supposed to give a performance increase?

2. With an aftermarket intake will this increase be even more?

3. I have read somewhere that the whining noise comes from the way the TB spacer is bored. That some of them turn the air or twist it for a better mixture is this the case?

4. Is this a mod that the ECU takes time to learn and adjust for air and fuel mixtures before we would know the true effect?

M4ck

Just a couple questions Dale.
1. Is it the increased air coming through that is supposed to give a performance increase?

According to the literature it's the swirling effect on the air that is supposed to make it flow quicker.

2. With an aftermarket intake will this increase be even more?

I don't the answer to that one at this time. Give me a week or so to better determine that one.

3. I have read somewhere that the whining noise comes from the way the TB spacer is bored. That some of them turn the air or twist it for a better mixture is this the case?

YES!!

4. Is this a mod that the ECU takes time to learn and adjust for air and fuel mixtures before we would know the true effect?

I'm going to keep an eye on how the engine is doing with my OB2 connector I have. I'll report back if any of the short term or long term fuel trim settings change.

I still don't see the logic in this mod. Even if the spacer has a larger diameter than the TB and the manifold your still restricted by those two. I also don't see why moving the TB further away from the manifold does anything - if that's the case then why not move the TB closer to the MAF / Airbox?

Well lets give it a couple weeks and see what heppens.
M4ck

Again, Dale, GREAT job on pics and install. Keep it up!

Thanks for attempting this Dale. Usually with this type of mod, it works in some vehicles and not in others. I guess we'll find out how it does in a Titan.

I am wondering about the sanitary gloves used durring install! Was that MrsJetTech doing that?

I am wondering about the sanitary gloves used durring install! Was that MrsJetTech doing that?

Sanitary gloves.... :lol: You crack me up...

I ALWAYS wear gloves, whether I'm working on vehicles or airplanes. Keeps my hands soft and supple.. :lol:

I thought maybe you were trying to keep your truck from getting infected or something! Soft and supple hands???? Oh my god! You take all the fun out of mechanican! What selfrespecting wrench turner doesn't have grease stains and a few nicks on his hands?

What selfrespecting wrench turner doesn't have grease stains and a few nicks on his hands?

ME!! 8)

I know. I didnt want to tell you but when I saw those hands in those rubber glovies I did get excited. LOL





J/K

I know. I didnt want to tell you but when I saw those hands in those rubber glovies I did get excited. LOL





J/K
LOL!!!!!!! You sick puppy you!

Hey BiXLL, there's some REALLY BAD STUFF in our airplanes that will absorb straight into you skin...I'd wear them, too................at work. :D

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2Y6m-EmwO6IVSWB7ZgEy!BsTrDgmWvs1LUoFqMxcmG6yYpsWamvLqut vsyKR9Dvx-F37NF8grtoI10FxJsxGpti8W8OdIE6g7d0pCxtv-0dJw__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_07.jpg

Is that a screen in the intake behind the throttle body? If so, it is designed to straighten the airflow. If you get this airspacer it will be useless I believe with that screen in placee.

Good eye I would have never thought of that. What do you think Dale. Is it something that just sits in there. Can it be removed without damaging anything.
M4ck

I haven't quite decided what I'm going to do with that screen just yet. My goal is to see what this T/B Spacer does "as is" first. More than likely I will remove the screen after I'm done with the testing phase. I'll let you know what happens.

Hey guys, I read somewhere that that "screen" was there to create turbulance. That is where alot of our lowend torque comes from. The ones that have removed it, have discovered they lost LOTS of torque. I'd check it out good before you remove it.

Here's where I found it, came from a Nissan Service Manager:

http://www.titantruckforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=57

Hey guys, I read somewhere that that "screen" was there to create turbulance. That is where alot of our lowend torque comes from. The ones that have removed it, have discovered they lost LOTS of torque. I'd check it out good before you remove it.

Here's where I found it, came from a Nissan Service Manager:

http://www.titantruckforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=57

Actually the screen doesn't create turbulance, it smooths out the air. Without it, the air would be rough going in.

Actually the screen doesn't create turbulance, it smooths out the air. Without it, the air would be rough going in.

Duh, yeah, I know.....I misunderstood. Sorry :oops:

I see what you're saying now, as "being useless". So, whatcha gonna do JT? leave it in,or not?

For now I'll leave it in until I can get a good baseline on mpg. I would hate to start skewing anything with it at this time because I want to give it a fair chance as it's supposed to be installed. After that I will probably remove it to see what happens. Truth is none of us really know what would happen with the screen removed, other then theory, until someone tries it.

The screen removal topic is on par with this whole T/B Spacer test. On different makes of vehicles it may not provide anything and whistle aweful, on the Titan it could prove to be a very worthwhile addition. The only thing I do know for a fact at this time is thankfully, what little whooshing noise it makes is negated by road noise cruising down the highway or the radio on low. It's nothing anyone would consider obtrusive by any means.

I should need fuel sometime tomorrow or Wed. because I'm just a little over a quarter of a tank right now. That's the area I'm hoping to see some improvements on.

I'm not trying to hijack my own thread here but this test brings up a good point as to why I positively love this Forum. My goal all along is to provide as much statistical evidence as I can on different mods and subjects, whether it's a T/B Spacer or different oils. I think it's important to stay open minded in these areas because if not, we may be missing out on something that could really benefit a lot of owners.

Of course we could theorize most anything in the ground as to why it won't work, but until someone gives it a fair shot and does some real world testing, how will we know?? The answer is we won't know, and to me that's a shame.

Case in point, this topic was cross linked to another Titan site. Over there they have concluded it's nothing more then an expensive paper weight and a "waist" as one person put it, of which I couldn't help but laugh at. Do you suppose the poster who thinks this thing is a "waist" has actually tried one of these on a Titan??? Or that he/she will not buy one if it proves to provide extra mpg if nothing else?? I doubt it!! Here's the link for a laugh. http://www.titantalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20009

So in closing I would just like to say thanks to all the members here, who let people like myself and Bixll, tests some of the items that are offered for the Titans while keeping an open mind. He and I are commited to providing as much statistical evidence as we possibly can while trying to keep everyone here informed.

Ok, my typing fingers are almost wore out... :lol:

Typical TT Dale. I need to say the whole reason I joined CT was because of you. I followed your MANY helpful threads on TT and you ALWAYS answered questions and PM's. You went above and beyond trying to be helpful. When you came over here, it was a no brainer to join up as well. So whether the TB spacer helps or not, let me go ahead and say THANKS for investigating it and reporting to us.


Okay, enough of the mushy stuff :oops:

Typical TT Dale. I need to say the whole reason I joined CT was because of you. I followed your MANY helpful threads on TT and you ALWAYS answered questions and PM's. You went above and beyond trying to be helpful. When you came over here, it was a no brainer to join up as well. So whether the TB spacer helps or not, let me go ahead and say THANKS for investigating it and reporting to us.


Okay, enough of the mushy stuff :oops:

I feel a GROUP HUG coming on!!!!!!!

Thanks Mike, I really appreciate the kind words.

Ok Bixll, this ones for you and Mike...group hug time.... :lol: Careful though Bixll, it might make you "happy", and I wouldn't want you to add me to your xmas card list. It's no fun being on your good side.. :lol:

It's no fun being on your good side..


No worries there JT, thats a place you will never find!!!!!! :mrgreen:

Thanks Mike, I really appreciate the kind words.

Ok Bixll, this ones for you and Mike...group hug time.... :lol: Careful though Bixll, it might make you "happy", and I wouldn't want you to add me to your xmas card list. It's no fun being on your good side.. :lol:


Cool I am all for group hugs...but don't tell M4ck, he worries me a little :lol:

LOL, and you have every right to worry about him Mike! Remeber the hillbilly them song from deliverance....dow-dow- dow-dow-dow-dow-dow!

No need to remember just play it. http://www.clubtitan.org/downloads/deliverance.mp3
LOL

ive rad a bit about these TB spacers and used to think they were junk, but i trust the opinoin of jettech and will take his testing more seriously then any magazine artical that ive ever read. testing in magazines are a general test this is specific to our vehical, round of applause to JT for this review

ive rad a bit about these TB spacers and used to think they were junk, but i trust the opinoin of jettech and will take his testing more seriously then any magazine artical that ive ever read. testing in magazines are a general test this is specific to our vehical, round of applause to JT for this review

Untill he tells us it is a GREAT paperwieght! LOL :D

if he determines its a paperweight mabye he'll put it up for the next Karma :lol: LOL
if anyone even wants it still :lol: :lol:

Well all, I finally filled up the silverbullet tonight to see what the results were......

I was pleasantly surprised to get 15.2mpg!! So there we have it, that little thing did exactly what it was supposed to do. I'll be keeping everyone updated on my next several fill-ups as to how it's doing but I'll be darned.....15.2, I almost fell out of the truck...That's an honest 1+mpg gain, of which I'll take anyday of the week..

Now, one thing I do want to bring up is results will certainly vary just as mpg vary between our trucks. I would like to see the results from someone who routinely gets 9 or 10, and also from someone who gets upper teens to see if the gain increases or decreases depending on where your starting point is.

I believe hopupracing.com sells these T/B Spacers for $99 so it's not an overly expensive mod to try.

I will continue to keep everyone updated over the next several weeks as to how it's doing, after that I'll have to bow out of the reporting because I've got a set of Titanium Ceramic Headers coming soon that I'll be installing. That will surely throw off my baseline that I have now.

Well I'm outta here for the evening, time to get some much needed beauty rest.. :lol: If any of you have any questions I'll be on in the morning.

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to add is that I wrote Kevin about the screen in the intake, and asked him if he would get with his engineering dept. to see if results would be better if it was removed. I'll let you know of his response as soon as I receive it.

I also took a pic of my odometer and fuel slip just in case black and white proof was needed... :D

Good info man. Can't wait to hear more. I was getting 15s before my first oil change, then I went down to 13s for that 3k, then switched to amsoil and now I get 15s again. Go figure. Same type of driving and gas too. So this means I mioght get 16mpg with this mod. :)

Great to know I will wait to hear if this continues over the next couple of tanks. If you get these results after each of the next couple fill ups I would be in for one.
M4ck

im defintly in after you do a few more mpg ave's.
hell if you get 1 mile per gallon better you will pay for the $100 part in about 800 gallons worth of fuel at $2 a gal if you get 15 mpg after the mod. it sounds like alot of fuel but its about 32 fill ups or 12,000 miles.

I finally filled up again last night and wanted to report that I got 14.8mpg. This fairly high number kind of shocked me because this is with Sam's 87 octane fuel, of which I always get lower mpg with, and that I had 7 dyno runs as well. More on that later... :wink:

Anyhow 14.8.....not too darn shabby in my book seeing as how I had numerous events with this tankful that should have crushed my mpg.

I'm going to wait on explaining my dyno runs and such until after I hear back from Kevin (PowerAid Director) and his engineers. There's a huge benefit from this spacer that I do want to let out but really need to wait until I get the engineers perspective on it. I hate to tease but it's a VERY good thing.....I'll let you all know soon.

you tease :lol: do we even get a hint to ponder over untill you tell us? 8)

Yes, no fair teasing JT... :evil:

That's just plain WRONG! :lol: :lol: LOL

He did tell you it was VERY GOOD.
You will be suprised.
M4ck

Oh great, now two of your are baiting us.... :roll:

no hints! JT is getting all his ducks in a row, but the wait will be worth it.

is there going to be a sudden rush to buy these after he releases his info? 8)

HEH

is there going to be a sudden rush to buy these after he releases his info? 8)

Lets just say that more the JT is busy preparing for the release of this info!

cool, did i understand right that he dynoed it also?

cool, did i understand right that he dynoed it also?

Patiance grasshopper!!!!! You are trying to get too much info from me. You want JT to have to road trip up here and beat me?

cool, did i understand right that he dynoed it also?

Patiance grasshopper!!!!! You are trying to get too much info from me. You want JT to have to road trip up here and beat me?

no, but patients was never one of my strong suits :lol:

I do

I do

See how you are? My buddy!

You gotta understand, BiXLL - Those ol' Greenville boys are trouble makers!!

You gotta understand, BiXLL - Those ol' Greenville boys are trouble makers!!

I'm startin to see that! "do da do do do do do do do"

I was basically sold on one of these before I read this thread, having real good luck with carb spacers in the past. I guess I'll have to get one to go with the Volant I talked myself into when the group buy came up. Hmmm, I wonder if my wife would like it for Valentine's day?

Hmmm, I wonder if my wife would like it for Valentine's day?

Good luck on that one! But seriously.....let me know if that works on her :mrgreen:

heh, she got a new Pathfinder for MY birthday. I think I can screw up valentine's day and get away with it. :lol:

pathfinder......or........TB spacer. seems like you would be gettin the short end of the stick. :lol: i say hold out for somethin better or add somethin to that TB spacer, like an intake or somethin :lol:

oh, she already got the new Pathfinder... she got it on MY birthday. I was thinking the throttle body spacer for my Titan would make a nice valentine's day gift for her... it is Red right?

yea its red

maybe I'll put it in a box of chocolates or something.

I certainly don't have all of my "ducks" in a row but I do feel like I should update this post and let everyone know what's going on.

As you know I installed the PowerAid T/B Spacer almost 2 weeks ago. Well the results were really pretty good. Very little whooshing noise that is easily drowned out by road noise or the radio on low. Nothing in my book as being obtrusive. It gave me a little better gas mileage too which is better then a sharp stick in the eye... :lol: The low end gains were nothing to rave about but it did "feel" a little stronger.

Ok now here's the update......

Last Friday night I couldn't take it anymore and removed the little half screen that's located on the intake. My theory was that it was counter-acting the swirl effect set up by the T/B Spacer and I wanted to try it without it. Well to say the least it made a HUGE difference on bottom end power!!! I was so impressed that I took it to the dyno this past Monday to see what ta heck was going on. Now here's the part that concerns me......the dyno results can be viewed as very SUBJECTIVE!!! And I don't like posting anything that can be interpreted as subjective. The reason for this is someone could say, "the dyno operator didn't get into it soon enough on the baseline run which is the reason I'm showing gains, and etc. etc"....That's very true and could be a possibility, BUT.....I was there and saw the results, along with the guy doing the dyno and I'm here to tell you they're real.....

So I contacted Kevin @ PowerAid and asked him to get with his engineers to see if they could explain this unexplainable, but really awesome, huge boost in low end power. His engineers are currently working in this topic so I haven't heard back yet as to their answer. I doubt they can explain it other then referencing the half screen and viewing it as a blockage for the spacer.

All I can say is if your going to buy one, when you remove the T/B, remove the screen (of which is part of the o-ring) and take it to your local auto parts store and buy an o-ring to replace it. Then install the Spacer using my instructions. Get ready for positively amazing results.

I believe Bixll is working on a group buy for these spacers so you might want to hit him up and see what's happening.

Well all that's my story....I apologize for not having more "concrete" information to give to you or information that is not/could be viewed as subjective. It's not my style but I'm a believer in the spacers now, in a BIG WAY......

Here's the first dyno run, all gains were below 3200 rpm, and for those of you that have had your truck dynoed, it's no easy task to keep the truck from downshifting into 2nd at these low rpms while trying to extract the most out of it. Also you'll notice my peak is way lower then last time, this is due to the truck being incredibly hot.....after several runs we let it cool down for about 10 minutes and then did another run to make sure the Spacer wasn't the culprit for the lower peaks....As you'll see on the second dyno sheet attached it wasn't, the engine was so hot the ECU was dialing back the timing.....As a matter of fact the Aux. fan was running trying to cool things off too. So here they are and please don't crucify me for the subjectiveness of the dynos....PLEASE!!!!

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5SDt3MKBm--U89RYpZNFQgDpyKpSifbSO46R8ekXqi8nB1FSf8hE26shylnas 1Flx8BRTGTcMk!79JUJ8cINbWq7InhHMZci5/Dyno_Run_02.JPG

http://www.pixagogo.com/S5SDt3MKBm--VytUKuYeXZkMllrxhS4DJImf8SyxukWXm-8ANgix5r!XffKpZlbF1nC1WrVQ4QC3a82gkGJmTpeBcgKXp2vh 3C/Dyno_Run_01.JPG

great info JT, its not subjective. i am glad to see that the TB spacer and removed screen doesnt lose high end power. it is kinda hard to see the gain on the dynos because its a low gain, but still! when you say a noticable gain down low, would you say it might give back some of the torque that some pepole are lossing with an exaust? do you think removing the screen without a TB spacer would be benificial?
bixll if you are startin a group buy put my name on the list :D depending on price of coarse :D

ok trying hard to read without asking, but no luck. I can't figure why there are 4 lines on each graph. Anyway, for the stupid, can you just tell us/me ( hopefully I am not the only one) the gains between the 2 dates, oooorrrrrr if you care to get into it...I would like to know how to read this.

DFD 101.......DYNO FOR DUMMIES

the 4 graphs are 2 for torque lines and 2 for HP curves. the blue lines are hp and torque graphs before the spacer and the red lines are hp and torque after the TB spacer

I'll try to help. The blue lines are without spacer, red lines with spacer. Look at the first chart. The top set of lines is torque, read on the right scale. The bottom set of lines is horsepower, read on the left scale. Look at the 3,000 RPM line. HP before the spscer was about 135; after about 175. Torque before was about 250, after about 310.
Hope this helps.

also its haard to see the gains on these graphs because he said the power is all below the 3200 rpm mark and the truck wont stay in 3rd gear when its floored at that rpm. the good thing is that he didnt lose any power up high from this mod.
JT did i read it right that you also had your least favorite gas in there? mabye gragh would be better with some premium gas from a station with good gas(amacoo clear or somethin), just a thought

Thank you guys......It was the top se(tq) and lower set(hp) of lines that had me all screwed up.......

That dyno was done with Sam's 87 octane, yes my least favorite!!! Another cool thing is that all the gains are in the area we all drive the most, which makes the truck much more responsive during our everyday drive. :)

Jet, Can you remove the TB spacer and leave the screen out to see what you get? Perhaps you would still see some good gains with just the screen removed.

Man it'll be nice when we can finally dyno 1:1. These low rpm gains would be so much easier to see.

JT, is that screen a really fine mesh? (Another fine mesh you've gotten us into!) Sorry..... :lol:

I'm just wondering why it's there since the air filter should catch anything small enough to damage the motor. Maybe it's there as a "catch" for the MAF incase it were to break apart? Are these screens common to most TB's?

Man it'll be nice when we can finally dyno 1:1. These low rpm gains would be so much easier to see.

JT, is that screen a really fine mesh? (Another fine mesh you've gotten us into!) Sorry..... :lol:

I'm just wondering why it's there since the air filter should catch anything small enough to damage the motor. Maybe it's there as a "catch" for the MAF incase it were to break apart? Are these screens common to most TB's?

Thats a good thought. Very well could be. Its not a fine mesh at all. If you look at JT's pictures it is like small open square areas. Looks like a pencil could pass through it.

I also asked JT the same thing about removing the screen without putting the TB on. I don't think he thought it would do too much.

I will be getting one of these soon myself. I am hoping there will be a group buy first so I can save a buck or two. As you know I lost some low end tq on my Titan when I put the custom exhaust I have on mine. Hopefully this will pull me back up and I will get some better times at the track.
M4ck

The screen is not fine mesh. I didn't measure but I think it has about 4 to 5 mm openings. Look at this drawing:

also here is JT's picture you can see it good. http://www.pixagogo.com/S5RthDLLFW!2Y6m-EmwO6IVSWB7ZgEy!BsTrDgmWvs1LUoFqMxcmG6yYpsWamvLqut vsyKR9Dvx-F37NF8grtoI10FxJsxGpti8W8OdIE6g7d0pCxtv-0dJw__/Throttle_Body_Spacer_07.jpg

The first graph looks a little disturbing in the midrange. But it seems that as it cooled, the power came back up. Good to see (whew)!

Too bad I already ordered one before the GB :x

Thanks for doing the grunt work for us JetTech!

By the way scr38 told me the other night that he is going to get one and do more of his own testing with it. I look forward to his results.

Anyone else who gets one of these spacers, please report in as to how it's doing. Just like most Titans can vary tremendously in gas mileage, I'm sure each one will also vary with results using this spacer. So I'm anxious to hear back from everyone.

The first graph looks a little disturbing in the midrange. But it seems that as it cooled, the power came back up. Good to see (whew)!

It sure does, but at the time we both knew it needed a little cool down time before we went any further. Out of seven runs he made with it, it kicked down into 2nd on him 3 times, of which means you have to stop the run, reset the dyno, and hit it again. That's why I've come to respect this dyno shop and the guy who does it because he tries very hard to keep the truck from downshifting but keeps it right on the edge for best ECU timing and results.

...All I can say is if your going to buy one, when you remove the T/B, remove the screen (of which is part of the o-ring) and take it to your local auto parts store and buy an o-ring to replace it.Thanks for being a pioneer JetTech. I am very interested in eventually doing this mod. Was the O-ring hard to find?

I was wondering the same thing about the O-ring. Since I'm interested in the group buy on these, and would definately like to see gains in HP and TQ.

...All I can say is if your going to buy one, when you remove the T/B, remove the screen (of which is part of the o-ring) and take it to your local auto parts store and buy an o-ring to replace it.Thanks for being a pioneer JetTech. I am very interested in eventually doing this mod. Was the O-ring hard to find?

Any auto parts store should be able to match one up for you..

Very nice gains! I like that very much!

Not bad for a paperweight hehe
M4ck

so when is this group buy going to come about? :D :wink:

so when is this group buy going to come about? :D :wink:

I'm not sure, I kind of threw it into Bixll's lap... :lol:

I know he has this new company that is doing the Volant group buy and expressed an interest in doing other ones, so I'll let him check with them first to see if they're interested. If not I'll organize one myself. We should know something the beginning of next week.

so when is this group buy going to come about? :D :wink:

I'm not sure, I kind of threw it into Bixll's lap... :lol:

I know he has this new company that is doing the Volant group buy and expressed an interest in doing other ones, so I'll let him check with them first to see if they're interested. If not I'll organize one myself. We should know something the beginning of next week.

as homer would say "Woo Hoo" :lol:

So what do you think the o ring with half screen's purpose is?

Am I reading the dyno right, some low end gain but some top end loss?

Explain it so I can understand: how much is gained really and is it worth swapping out the o rings and adding the throttle body?

Pros and cons would probably help a lot of us make a decision one way or the other.

Thanks,

O rings = doughnuts.

So what do you think the o ring with half screen's purpose is?

Am I reading the dyno right, some low end gain but some top end loss?

Explain it so I can understand: how much is gained really and is it worth swapping out the o rings and adding the throttle body?

Pros and cons would probably help a lot of us make a decision one way or the other.

Thanks,

O rings = doughnuts.

I have to make the assumption (of which I despise doing) that the screen is there to straighten out the incoming air. When I removed it, it allowed the T/B spacer to do it's swirling function uninterrupted of which made the low end response excellent.

The dyno sheet that shows the gains does dip in the middle, but the reason for that dip is the engine had just suffered 3 back to back dyno runs and was extremely hot, so the ECU was stepping in and reducing the amount of timing. The second dyno graph you see was done after letting the engine cool down for about 10 minutes so we could be sure that everything was fine, and the dip was just because the engine was hot. You'll notice the dip was back to normal.

The true gain was impossible to tell on the dyno because all of it was below 3200rpm, and pretty much anything below 3600rpm is where a downshift can occur. So it's a balancing act when doing a dyno run. Let me explain how it's done and maybe that will help.

The shifter is put into 3rd gear to begin with, the dyno operator slowly brings the speed up to where the transmission is in 3rd gear just above idle. Then he "rolls" into the throttle as quick as he can without invoking a downshift, while engaging the dyno rollers around 2500rpm. At approx. 3400 to 3500rpm his foot should be on the floor until redline.

The gains you see on the dyno graph are real and can certainly be felt. Of course it's up to you whether you want to buy one or not but I don't think you'll be disappointed in any way if you decide to.

Did I answer all of your questions??

After reading my post it almost sounds like I contradicted myself in saying it's impossible to get "true gains" and then I said the "gains are real" Let me just add this to help clear this up. The "only" way to get a 100% "true gain" from this mod would be to somehow lock the transmission in 3rd gear and flat foot it right off idle. With that not being an option with our Titans it has to be "rolled" into to keep a downshift from occuring. So what your seeing is "real", but it still isn't a 100% true gain reading. Did I just confuse the heck out of you??? Sorry if I did because that's not my intention. I just want to be totally upfront with how dynos are accomplished and what your looking at.

Yes and no-

Help me with numbers. How much was gained (tq/hp) and where (rpm's) and was there any loss, if so how much (hp/tq and where)?

The graphs are confusing and do not show (to my sorry eye/mind interpretation) much difference.

Thanks Dale!

Yes and no-

Help me with numbers. How much was gained (tq/hp) and where (rpm's) and was there any loss, if so how much (hp/tq and where)?

The graphs are confusing and do not show (to my sorry eye/mind interpretation) much difference.

Thanks Dale!I was told to look at the graph around 3k rpm. There is a huge difference!

Yes and no-

Help me with numbers. How much was gained (tq/hp) and where (rpm's) and was there any loss, if so how much (hp/tq and where)?

The graphs are confusing and do not show (to my sorry eye/mind interpretation) much difference.

Thanks Dale!I was told to look at the graph around 3k rpm. There is a huge difference!

It depends on the graph. The one with the "huge" (define please) difference also has the "flat spot" due to heat from previous runs. The second graph shows very little difference between the two and the numbers indicate that stock has more hp/tq then the mod.

From what I am able to ascertain with my limited abilities of comprehension is that this mod might be helpful in the lower end but sacrifices a little in the middle and top end.

Either way the differences are not huge (IMHO) and dynos only have limited ability to track the differences because our vehicles have auto trannies thus making it almost impossible to graph anything below 3K RPM.

I was hoping that Dale could use his expertise to break this down in a way that my feeble mind can comprehend, for instance:
Differences between:
HP/TQ w/o Throttle body and with "o" ring screen v. HP/TQ with Throttle Body and w/o "o" ring screen.

and,

mileage per gallon difference after mod

and,

Pros and Cons of doing this mod,

as well as his opinion of how much of a difference this mod makes in the performance of his truck, subjectively, after having it on for a while.

I know it's a lot to ask but inquiring minds (well at least mine) want to know. (Sorry for being a PIA)

Thanks,

Man it'll be nice when we can finally dyno 1:1. These low rpm gains would be so much easier to see.

JT, is that screen a really fine mesh? (Another fine mesh you've gotten us into!) Sorry..... :lol:

I'm just wondering why it's there since the air filter should catch anything small enough to damage the motor. Maybe it's there as a "catch" for the MAF incase it were to break apart? Are these screens common to most TB's?

Thats a good thought. Very well could be. Its not a fine mesh at all. If you look at JT's pictures it is like small open square areas. Looks like a pencil could pass through it.

I also asked JT the same thing about removing the screen without putting the TB on. I don't think he thought it would do too much.

I will be getting one of these soon myself. I am hoping there will be a group buy first so I can save a buck or two. As you know I lost some low end tq on my Titan when I put the custom exhaust I have on mine. Hopefully this will pull me back up and I will get some better times at the track.
M4ck

Thanks, I missed seeing that pic showing the screen. I see it only covers about half the opening. I wonder if it's there to help with stratification of the inlet air, or to cause more turbulence. At any rate, it doesn't appear that it's purpose is a 'catch' for anything. So if it gives a little more low-end grunt and saves a few pennies at the pump, then I'm in! :D

Steve

I'll try to help. The blue lines are without spacer, red lines with spacer. Look at the first chart. The top set of lines is torque, read on the right scale. The bottom set of lines is horsepower, read on the left scale. Look at the 3,000 RPM line. HP before the spscer was about 135; after about 175. Torque before was about 250, after about 310.
Hope this helps.These gains, relative to the mod, and shown by the dyno chart, are huge.

Yes and no-

Help me with numbers. How much was gained (tq/hp) and where (rpm's) and was there any loss, if so how much (hp/tq and where)?

The graphs are confusing and do not show (to my sorry eye/mind interpretation) much difference.

Thanks Dale!I was told to look at the graph around 3k rpm. There is a huge difference!

It depends on the graph. The one with the "huge" (define please) difference also has the "flat spot" due to heat from previous runs. The second graph shows very little difference between the two and the numbers indicate that stock has more hp/tq then the mod.

From what I am able to ascertain with my limited abilities of comprehension is that this mod might be helpful in the lower end but sacrifices a little in the middle and top end.

Either way the differences are not huge (IMHO) and dynos only have limited ability to track the differences because our vehicles have auto trannies thus making it almost impossible to graph anything below 3K RPM.

I was hoping that Dale could use his expertise to break this down in a way that my feeble mind can comprehend, for instance:
Differences between:
HP/TQ w/o Throttle body and with "o" ring screen v. HP/TQ with Throttle Body and w/o "o" ring screen.

and,

mileage per gallon difference after mod

and,

Pros and Cons of doing this mod,

as well as his opinion of how much of a difference this mod makes in the performance of his truck, subjectively, after having it on for a while.

I know it's a lot to ask but inquiring minds (well at least mine) want to know. (Sorry for being a PIA)

Thanks,

Any further response to these questions?

i see one graph showing a quicker onset for power with the mod but it also has the flat spot due to heat from previous runs. The other graph shows virtually no difference, if anything a little loss in the mid and top end. I am a little confused.

Increase in MPG?

strick9, I don't want you to think I've given up on you but I really don't know how else to explain the graphs and what's going on with them. I've read my responses to you several times and just can't think of any other way to explain it. Maybe someone else can jump in here and look at your questions from a different angle.

Can anyone else take a shot at this from a different perspective??

strick9, I don't want you to think I've given up on you but I really don't know how else to explain the graphs and what's going on with them. I've read my responses to you several times and just can't think of any other way to explain it. Maybe someone else can jump in here and look at your questions from a different angle.

Can anyone else take a shot at this from a different perspective??

I know you've been busy with the JBA headers so no worries about me. I'm just a little slow when I'm considering a mod. I worry things through and then make my move (or not), so I'm worrying this a bit, probably too much.

So to reiterate: this mod gives low end power better than stock, right? If so how much?

There is a small loss in overall HP/TQ in the mid and top end but not much, right?

I know you haven't been driving your truck since it's "in process" so I doubt you can give any MPG data with the throttle body spacer/ O ring change and we may never know because the headers will be an added part to the equation.

So the major con to this mod as I see it is the chance of having a warranty issue if the mod should be found responsible for any engine related failure.

I guess I want to be convinced that the gains are worth the risk.

Any help there?

Strick9 the good thing about the T/B spacer is if you did have a problem and had to take it in to the dealer it should be very easy to remove it and put it back stock.
LOL
m4ck

Guys I have read dyno charts for years and something isn't right here.

The BLUE is the one that shows gains the Red is the one that shows losses. IF the RED is the one after the TB spacer, then he lost a massive amount of power. If the Blue is the one, he gained a great deal of power.

Even if the RED is higher at the beginning it could just be he got more air at full throttle punch then it started to loose.

I might back out of the GD if I am reading this right. If red is the TB spacer, I am not buying that spacer.

For example guys.

Here is a stock dyno of my 2000 Maxima Automatic.

http://titantrucks.net/russ/dynos/2KDYNO.JPG

Then affter a CAI install, here is what it looks like afterwards.

http://titantrucks.net/russ/dynos/D1199-1.JPG

This shows true gains, unlike his dyno above. If RED is suppose to be the TB spacer, then he lost a great amount of power. Mid-range power is what you need more than anything else. That is where most vehicles are driven, in the midrange.

JetTech, I posted over on TT about these. I am looking for some honest discussion, so please don't feel like I am trying to flame you. (if I was I wouldn't have the cajones to post this over here!)

If you would be so kind as to check out Posts 15 & 16 (links below) and let me know your responses, I would appreciate it.

POST 15: http://www.titantalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=253108#post253097
POST 16: http://www.titantalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=253108#post253108

(I have retyped this several times because my IE crashes when I try to post a responseto this thread, so I apologize for my brevity.)

Guys I have read dyno charts for years and something isn't right here.

The BLUE is the one that shows gains the Red is the one that shows losses. IF the RED is the one after the TB spacer, then he lost a massive amount of power. If the Blue is the one, he gained a great deal of power.

Even if the RED is higher at the beginning it could just be he got more air at full throttle punch then it started to loose.

I might back out of the GD if I am reading this right. If red is the TB spacer, I am not buying that spacer.

Please go back and read my posts closely, that should straighten things out for ya... :D

JetTech, I posted over on TT about these. I am looking for some honest discussion, so please don't feel like I am trying to flame you. (if I was I wouldn't have the cajones to post this over here!)

If you would be so kind as to check out Posts 15 & 16 (links below) and let me know your responses, I would appreciate it.

POST 15: http://www.titantalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=253108#post253097
POST 16: http://www.titantalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=253108#post253108

(I have retyped this several times because my IE crashes when I try to post a responseto this thread, so I apologize for my brevity.)

There seems to be some good discussion over on TT concerning the Spacers but there are still questions that I can't honestly answer. The dyno graph I posted could surely be misinterpreted, my personal results could be as well. This Spacer is surely no magical invention that will give you supercharged results, but it will give you a nice noticeable gain from idle to about 3K rpm.

Guys I have read dyno charts for years and something isn't right here.

The BLUE is the one that shows gains the Red is the one that shows losses. IF the RED is the one after the TB spacer, then he lost a massive amount of power. If the Blue is the one, he gained a great deal of power.

Even if the RED is higher at the beginning it could just be he got more air at full throttle punch then it started to loose.

I might back out of the GD if I am reading this right. If red is the TB spacer, I am not buying that spacer.

Please go back and read my posts closely, that should straighten things out for ya... :D

I did, and to what I understand your saying the RED is the TB. If so, then you did not gain but you lost. I had the wrighter of Zsport magazine a personal friend that does a lot of testing on mods, etc look at your info, and he also agrees that you lost a great deal of power. You can not look at before 3k or 3500. You need to look at where the lines meet close and its a steady pull compared to the other one. Mainly because of the TQ converter you can not look at the skewed results of before.

Guys I have read dyno charts for years and something isn't right here.

The BLUE is the one that shows gains the Red is the one that shows losses. IF the RED is the one after the TB spacer, then he lost a massive amount of power. If the Blue is the one, he gained a great deal of power.

Even if the RED is higher at the beginning it could just be he got more air at full throttle punch then it started to loose.

I might back out of the GD if I am reading this right. If red is the TB spacer, I am not buying that spacer.
2 things come to mind, either your statement is uderly rediculas, or I guess I have not been reading dyno graphs long enough. I have never heard of blue and red showing the gains and losses! Please explain how that works to me, when a dyno run is showing both torque and horsepower with each run! The colors represent torque and horsepower, NOt losses and gains! You compare losses and gains by comparing your torque and horsepower lines of seperate runs! Man, you are turning people off on a mod that gives definite low end gains, by giving bad info!

Jet Tech and I both take what we do with doing these reviews VERY SERIOUSLY. We both spend large amounts of money, and a lot of our time in doing them in such a manner as to not put bad info out. We make nothing out of doing any of this except the satisfaction of helping others be informed as to what they would be getting into.

The only mistake Jet Tech made in this review is using the graph done showing the heat soak. He used it, and explained that the only reason he put it up there was to try to show you the low end numbers. That has obviously confused a lot of people! So far as people saying they don't want that spacer if it is going to loose H.P. and torque if the motor gets hot. Well, weather you are bone stock, or have mods on, a fact of life is, that when the motor heats up, you will loose both H.P., and torque! Why do you think the big time drag racers have their crews push them to the start line, and don't fire up untill its time to run?

I don't mean to ramble, but when a man goes through all the trouble JT did to provide a good, tested review, and makes his recomendation, I can't figure out for the life of me, why so many would try so hard to tear down his results. Trust me folks, he would say nothing at all, before he would put info out that he was not sure of!

Well, one thing for sure, we will have lots of results and reports after the group buy.

If I could have had my "druthers" I'd druther have seen a longer term test of the results of the TB mod but "ol' pretty hands" JT went and put on those headers right after the TB, so we'll just have to find out for ourselves now won't we?

If you want to play, join in, if you don't, sit and watch but don't boo the players.

Number One Spectator,

Strick9

Guys I have read dyno charts for years and something isn't right here.

The BLUE is the one that shows gains the Red is the one that shows losses. IF the RED is the one after the TB spacer, then he lost a massive amount of power. If the Blue is the one, he gained a great deal of power.

Even if the RED is higher at the beginning it could just be he got more air at full throttle punch then it started to loose.

I might back out of the GD if I am reading this right. If red is the TB spacer, I am not buying that spacer.

Please go back and read my posts closely, that should straighten things out for ya... :D

I did, and to what I understand your saying the RED is the TB. If so, then you did not gain but you lost. I had the wrighter of Zsport magazine a personal friend that does a lot of testing on mods, etc look at your info, and he also agrees that you lost a great deal of power. You can not look at before 3k or 3500. You need to look at where the lines meet close and its a steady pull compared to the other one. Mainly because of the TQ converter you can not look at the skewed results of before.

Hi Titan_Tx,

I really would like for you to seriously read all of my posts and explanations concerning the graphs, etc. etc. Everything you're asking has already been explained in depth. If you're convinced this information is not accurate, or that I'm LOSING then don't get one.

I mean heck, you may have caught me big time on this $100 freebie that I was given, and now I'm here to tell everyone how good it is when you and your Zsport magazine friend have figured out the truth. Shhhhh, don't tell anyone ok, I'm sure AirAid will be compensating me BIG TIME for all this free advertising they're getting....Shhhhhhh

:lol: :lol:

Seriously though, here's the main thing everyone needs to be aware of if your thinking about purchasing the spacer.

1. The results I obtained were on my truck!!!

In no way does this mean your spacer will have the same results. Here's a few possibilities that could and probably will happen:

You will lose low end power
You will lose mpg

You will gain low end power
You will gain mpg

Your low end power will not change
Your mpg will remain the same

Those are the 6 possibilities that I can think of, and I can assure you some, if not all will occur.

Again, let me repeat......The results I got were on my truck!!!

There's truly nothing else that I can say about it except, I hope many of you that purchase one, get the same results I got and are as happy as I am with the positive results. :D

Hopefully this last post will help to clear any questions you all have.

Okay please explain the graph that he has above me. Because I see 2 graphs. And to what some are saying the Red line on both the HP and TQ sections on both charts is the one with the TB mod. If that is true, then it didn't gain. I understand where your coming from and to what I understand after reading this 3 times, the RED is the TB added for both HP and TQ.

And the Blue lines was before. If so, then he didn't gain.
There trully is no explanation in detail here about the dyno graph. I already had another person look at this, and they are completely confused.

Can we see the chart of all the rpms with hp and tq listed for before and after. I would like to review that as well.

Guys I have read dyno charts for years and something isn't right here.

The BLUE is the one that shows gains the Red is the one that shows losses. IF the RED is the one after the TB spacer, then he lost a massive amount of power. If the Blue is the one, he gained a great deal of power.

Even if the RED is higher at the beginning it could just be he got more air at full throttle punch then it started to loose.

I might back out of the GD if I am reading this right. If red is the TB spacer, I am not buying that spacer.
2 things come to mind, either your statement is uderly rediculas, or I guess I have not been reading dyno graphs long enough. I have never heard of blue and red showing the gains and losses! Please explain how that works to me, when a dyno run is showing both torque and horsepower with each run! The colors represent torque and horsepower, NOt losses and gains! You compare losses and gains by comparing your torque and horsepower lines of seperate runs! Man, you are turning people off on a mod that gives definite low end gains, by giving bad info!

Jet Tech and I both take what we do with doing these reviews VERY SERIOUSLY. We both spend large amounts of money, and a lot of our time in doing them in such a manner as to not put bad info out. We make nothing out of doing any of this except the satisfaction of helping others be informed as to what they would be getting into.

The only mistake Jet Tech made in this review is using the graph done showing the heat soak. He used it, and explained that the only reason he put it up there was to try to show you the low end numbers. That has obviously confused a lot of people! So far as people saying they don't want that spacer if it is going to loose H.P. and torque if the motor gets hot. Well, weather you are bone stock, or have mods on, a fact of life is, that when the motor heats up, you will loose both H.P., and torque! Why do you think the big time drag racers have their crews push them to the start line, and don't fire up untill its time to run?

I don't mean to ramble, but when a man goes through all the trouble JT did to provide a good, tested review, and makes his recomendation, I can't figure out for the life of me, why so many would try so hard to tear down his results. Trust me folks, he would say nothing at all, before he would put info out that he was not sure of!

I see a few here making immature comments. BIll and Jettech need to both calm down. This is a conversation to discuss this. I will read the whole thread again tonight and I will come back to let you know what I found out.

In logic, there has to be 2 correct statements to come to one correct conclusion so here goes based on the First (top) dyno graph:
Top pair (red & blue) of lines represent TORQUE
True statement#1 Blue is the torque output throughout one run BEFORE spacer was installed. The ONLY reading available starts around 2800rpm
True statement#2 Red is the torque output throughtout one run AFTER spacer was installed. The ONLY reading available starts around 2800rpm.
Unbiased interpretation: There is a GAIN of torque at 2800 rpm from 245 to 275 = a gain of 30, however this gain eventually decreases to OEM level at 3200 rpm, goes lower than OEM after 3200 then evens with the OEM torque output at 4600 rpm.
Logical CONCLUSION: From 2800 rpm engine speed, there is more torque on tap UP TO 3200 ( low end torque gain), however, after 3200 rpm, there is a loss of mid range torque (indicated by the flattening RED curve between 3200-4600 lower than OEM)
Using the same approach, anyone can make that interpretation on the lower pair of lines representing HORSEPOWER.
I am not an expert on dyno readings but research and medical data interpretation is my line.
Hope this doesn't offend anyone but rather clarify things as I owe my loyalty only to the real facts.

Whoa! It appears what we have here is a failure to communicate. I am not the editor of Z-Sport magazine but JetTech's analysis and disclaimers regarding the Dyno Results and exactly where the gains were had, made sense to me . . . Guess I'm confused about the Confusion. :)

I see a few here making immature comments. BIll and Jettech need to both calm down. This is a conversation to discuss this. I will read the whole thread again tonight and I will come back to let you know what I found out.

There are no problems Titan_tx. And no one has made any immature comments from what I've read. I do know how Bixll feels though because he and I both dedicate a lot of our time to this forum while trying to bring as much factual information to the members as we can.

Oh how I'm starting to regret posting the dyno information concerning this spacer. :? I thought about it for several days after I had it done because I fully understood how it could be viewed as being very subjective, kind of like the old smoke and mirrors trick. Trying to get a factual gain below the full throttle point (~3500rpm) is sketchy at best, and a real trick for the dyno operator.

I fully understand your skeptism and that's fine. But let's not let this whole thread turn into a nightmare because there's no need of it. I've stated what I've stated and every bit of it is the honest truth. Remember now, I have no gain (monetarily) for posting any of this, I did it based on my findings and with the hopes others would have as much luck as I did.

So let's all have a cold one.... 8) It's Friday night so now I can have one too.... :twisted:

[quote="Titan_TX"]Guys I have read dyno charts for years and something isn't right here.

"The BLUE is the one that shows gains the Red is the one that shows losses."

Above quote from Titan_Tx is NOT a correct statement of the data at hand in any way shape or form!!

The RED as a continuous line in this specific graph DOES NOT represent power loses or vice versa. Each line (regardless of color) represents a single pass (run) from lower rpm to redline. The difference in color indicates BEFORE install run (in scientific term= BASELINE) and AFTER install run comparing their output (torque or HP) at different points throughtout the RPM width . Now, which is which? The operator doing the testing knows this and It has to be indicated in the graph output for independent knowledgeable analysts to interpret the data!

On JetTech's dyno sheet, the date & time (Hr:Min) clearly indicates that:

Jan 4, 05 @ 3:37 PM (BLUE) was before install we will call "baseline"

Jan 31, 05 @ 2:24 PM (RED) After spacer install is the comparative data

Now compare the two outputs at different RPM ranges and JetTech is absolutely right when he claimed that there is an "increase in low end torque" based on this information!

On the 2nd dyno chart, the same baseline (blue) is used taken Jan 4, 05 @ 3:37 PM. No change here as this is baseline!!

The RED LINE however was taken Jan 31, 05 @ 2:43 PM after the engine cooled off for exactly 19 minutes since 2:24 PM (same day) THUS the final analysis that either way, hot or cold, this device allows the engine to achieve productive torque quicker and faster at lower RPM . Meaning: quicker off the line starts and quicker 1/4 mile times.

Now I apologize for my brazen statements as I've been interpreting dyno charts for only one hour based on scientific principles of analysis.

I don't intend to chew on this but in this case, JetTech is just giving an honest helpfull personal data to us Titan owners so we can make our own intelligent analysis and he is NOT (from my understanding) trying to sell any goods or products.

"A fish is caught through it's own mouth"

So let's all have a cold one.... 8) It's Friday night so now I can have one too.... :twisted:

I'm with you JetTech. Crack one open baby and thanks for your hard work! I appreciate it.

That is correct. But the problem is you can't go by what the dynos say before 3500 mainly because the way a dyno works it isn't a correct reading till it follows the normal path of the lines. Once you show them on top of each other, from pull to pull, then you can see the difference. The TORQUE converter gets in the way when you stab it on the dyno, and that is where the line at the beginning just isn't enough fact to make me believe the TB spacer actually gained hp.

In logic, there has to be 2 correct statements to come to one correct conclusion so here goes based on the First (top) dyno graph:
Top pair (red & blue) of lines represent TORQUE
True statement#1 Blue is the torque output throughout one run BEFORE spacer was installed. The ONLY reading available starts around 2800rpm
True statement#2 Red is the torque output throughtout one run AFTER spacer was installed. The ONLY reading available starts around 2800rpm.
Unbiased interpretation: There is a GAIN of torque at 2800 rpm from 245 to 275 = a gain of 30, however this gain eventually decreases to OEM level at 3200 rpm, goes lower than OEM after 3200 then evens with the OEM torque output at 4600 rpm.
Logical CONCLUSION: From 2800 rpm engine speed, there is more torque on tap UP TO 3200 ( low end torque gain), however, after 3200 rpm, there is a loss of mid range torque (indicated by the flattening RED curve between 3200-4600 lower than OEM)
Using the same approach, anyone can make that interpretation on the lower pair of lines representing HORSEPOWER.
I am not an expert on dyno readings but research and medical data interpretation is my line.
Hope this doesn't offend anyone but rather clarify things as I owe my loyalty only to the real facts.

I see a few here making immature comments. BIll and Jettech need to both calm down. This is a conversation to discuss this. I will read the whole thread again tonight and I will come back to let you know what I found out.

There are no problems Titan_tx. And no one has made any immature comments from what I've read. I do know how Bixll feels though because he and I both dedicate a lot of our time to this forum while trying to bring as much factual information to the members as we can.

Oh how I'm starting to regret posting the dyno information concerning this spacer. :? I thought about it for several days after I had it done because I fully understood how it could be viewed as being very subjective, kind of like the old smoke and mirrors trick. Trying to get a factual gain below the full throttle point (~3500rpm) is sketchy at best, and a real trick for the dyno operator.

I fully understand your skeptism and that's fine. But let's not let this whole thread turn into a nightmare because there's no need of it. I've stated what I've stated and every bit of it is the honest truth. Remember now, I have no gain (monetarily) for posting any of this, I did it based on my findings and with the hopes others would have as much luck as I did.

So let's all have a cold one.... 8) It's Friday night so now I can have one too.... :twisted:

Alright, its Friday you got yourself a deal. Well I am still on the GB and I willl post my own results as well.

BTW, not only you and Bill spend money to prove things. There are many others here that also help. I have done my share in other communities from CAI designs and testing, to exhausts, etc. Been doing this for over 10 years.

Well I am still on the GB and I willl post my own results as well

Now I am really confused! I am the one putting the list together, and I have not recieved a request for you to be added to it????

Also feel free to add any of your documentation of your testing any time! We would welcome input from someone with as much experiance as yourself!

[quote]Also feel free to add any of your documentation of your testing any time! We would welcome input from someone with as much experiance as yourself!

You and I think alike Bixll, you took the words right out of my keyboard!!! :lol: :lol:

That is correct. But the problem is you can't go by what the dynos say before 3500 mainly because the way a dyno works it isn't a correct reading till it follows the normal path of the lines. Once you show them on top of each other, from pull to pull, then you can see the difference. The TORQUE converter gets in the way when you stab it on the dyno, and that is where the line at the beginning just isn't enough fact to make me believe the TB spacer actually gained hp.

In logic, there has to be 2 correct statements to come to one correct conclusion so here goes based on the First (top) dyno graph:
Top pair (red & blue) of lines represent TORQUE
True statement#1 Blue is the torque output throughout one run BEFORE spacer was installed. The ONLY reading available starts around 2800rpm
True statement#2 Red is the torque output throughtout one run AFTER spacer was installed. The ONLY reading available starts around 2800rpm.
Unbiased interpretation: There is a GAIN of torque at 2800 rpm from 245 to 275 = a gain of 30, however this gain eventually decreases to OEM level at 3200 rpm, goes lower than OEM after 3200 then evens with the OEM torque output at 4600 rpm.
Logical CONCLUSION: From 2800 rpm engine speed, there is more torque on tap UP TO 3200 ( low end torque gain), however, after 3200 rpm, there is a loss of mid range torque (indicated by the flattening RED curve between 3200-4600 lower than OEM)
Using the same approach, anyone can make that interpretation on the lower pair of lines representing HORSEPOWER.
I am not an expert on dyno readings but research and medical data interpretation is my line.
Hope this doesn't offend anyone but rather clarify things as I owe my loyalty only to the real facts.
Titan_TX,
Not to rain your parade But....
in scientific "COMPARATIVE" studies, The "variables" (In this case: car mechanics eg: torque converter, engine temp, atmospheric conditions, elevation, operator, fuel used etc) should remain constant EXEPT for the "factor" (in this case the TBS) being studied.

You keep blaming the torque converter's influence on the result BUT, it is the same torque converter from start to finish. (Baseline to comparison) There is no such thing as "normal path of lines". You have corridors with wide data, because the torque converter is a "constant variable". It does not respond exactly from one minute to the next so.... Studies have a corridor NOT a strainght line. In a succesful study, data vary, you get several runs, get the average, then you have a result.

However, we are not a scientific reseach group funded with unlimited resources therefore, a single honest run is more than enough for me.

If you keep looking "for the normal path of line" and wait and document ONLY when you see it, you are skewing the result because you are looking ONLY for what you want to see.

I really don't know if you even know what you are talking about or you even know what you're looking at. Look at my previous post on how to interpret the JT's dyno result. ( I have been interpreting this only a few hours so it shouldn't be so difficult for you having "years" of reading!) Your negative comments are unbased, unscientific and almost incompetently ignorant to JT's good motives. He (JT) has the most technical knowledge here and you my friend has questionable knowledge on this topic and you can take this to the bank!!!

You could argue this point until you turn blue but your approach is non-scientific to say the least and would yield false conclusion and confuse the innocent.

Well I am still on the GB and I willl post my own results as well

Now I am really confused! I am the one putting the list together, and I have not recieved a request for you to be added to it????

Also feel free to add any of your documentation of your testing any time! We would welcome input from someone with as much experiance as yourself!

Go look at the Group buy post. I was in it, 1st page or 2nd. If you don't have me on the list, oh well then.

That is correct. But the problem is you can't go by what the dynos say before 3500 mainly because the way a dyno works it isn't a correct reading till it follows the normal path of the lines. Once you show them on top of each other, from pull to pull, then you can see the difference. The TORQUE converter gets in the way when you stab it on the dyno, and that is where the line at the beginning just isn't enough fact to make me believe the TB spacer actually gained hp.

In logic, there has to be 2 correct statements to come to one correct conclusion so here goes based on the First (top) dyno graph:
Top pair (red & blue) of lines represent TORQUE
True statement#1 Blue is the torque output throughout one run BEFORE spacer was installed. The ONLY reading available starts around 2800rpm
True statement#2 Red is the torque output throughtout one run AFTER spacer was installed. The ONLY reading available starts around 2800rpm.
Unbiased interpretation: There is a GAIN of torque at 2800 rpm from 245 to 275 = a gain of 30, however this gain eventually decreases to OEM level at 3200 rpm, goes lower than OEM after 3200 then evens with the OEM torque output at 4600 rpm.
Logical CONCLUSION: From 2800 rpm engine speed, there is more torque on tap UP TO 3200 ( low end torque gain), however, after 3200 rpm, there is a loss of mid range torque (indicated by the flattening RED curve between 3200-4600 lower than OEM)
Using the same approach, anyone can make that interpretation on the lower pair of lines representing HORSEPOWER.
I am not an expert on dyno readings but research and medical data interpretation is my line.
Hope this doesn't offend anyone but rather clarify things as I owe my loyalty only to the real facts.
Titan_TX,
Not to rain your parade But....
in scientific "COMPARATIVE" studies, The "variables" (In this case: car mechanics eg: torque converter, engine temp, atmospheric conditions, elevation, operator, fuel used etc) should remain constant EXEPT for the "factor" (in this case the TBS) being studied.

You keep blaming the torque converter's influence on the result BUT, it is the same torque converter from start to finish. (Baseline to comparison) There is no such thing as "normal path of lines". You have corridors with wide data, because the torque converter is a "constant variable". It does not respond exactly from one minute to the next so.... Studies have a corridor NOT a strainght line. In a succesful study, data vary, you get several runs, get the average, then you have a result.

However, we are not a scientific reseach group funded with unlimited resources therefore, a single honest run is more than enough for me.

If you keep looking "for the normal path of line" and wait and document ONLY when you see it, you are skewing the result because you are looking ONLY for what you want to see.

I really don't know if you even know what you are talking about or you even know what you're looking at. Look at my previous post on how to interpret the JT's dyno result. ( I have been interpreting this only a few hours so it shouldn't be so difficult for you having "years" of reading!) Your negative comments are unbased, unscientific and almost incompetently ignorant to JT's good motives. He (JT) has the most technical knowledge here and you my friend has questionable knowledge on this topic and you can take this to the bank!!!

You could argue this point until you turn blue but your approach is non-scientific to say the least and would yield false conclusion and confuse the innocent.

I am done here, it is obvious some people here have no clue how to read a dyno graph the correct way. I am out.

Why are you giving such an attitude? What have I done to deserve this? I suggest you go reread the thread on group buy!
http://www.clubtitan.org/postt1426.html

The original posted by m4xk informed all that I would give the details as to how to get in on it. Your not in it simply by posting a response to a thread!

Drop the attitude!!!!!!!

Why are you giving such an attitude? What have I done to deserve this? I suggest you go reread the thread on group buy!
http://www.clubtitan.org/postt1426.html

The original posted by m4xk informed all that I would give the details as to how to get in on it. Your not in it simply by posting a response to a thread!

Drop the attitude!!!!!!!

Well since the oriignal post got deleted, how would I have known?

Forget it. I want no part of this group buy. I am just a bit sick of a few people at this moment in time.

I don't have a attitude., read your posts and Jet-tech. Seems I am the one being attacked.

Ok all, I want to thank everyone for their input on this topic and the debates. I will now lock this thread and leave it in this section. Thanks again everyone....