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Got fed up at the stealership, paying $9.00 a quart to do my own ATF flush. So, I went to my local Pep Boys store, and found some Castrol that said "Multivehicle" ATF. Right on the bottle it said that it was recommended for use where ever Nissan Matic "J" is prescribed. Went home, went to Castrol's website, and it said the same thing on their product data sheets. My stealership charges $500.00 for a 30K service, I'll do it myself. It's a days pay saved if I do it.
 

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Castrol may say its the same as Nissan J, but Nissan doesn't say that. Using anything other than Nissan J will void the warranty on the transmission.
 

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I payed $90.00 for my flush at the dealership!
 

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dude if i made $500 a day i woundnt change my own underware
 

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I won't say what the Nissan tranny fluid actually costs because there are parts people that need to make a living, but $500 is ridiculous. $150 is the absolute most I would pay for a tranny flush including the flush kit. In fact that is what my last complete flush cost me. $149.95. The one I had at 30,000 miles cost me $99 for a flush.
 

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On another thread, I was asked to call my Castrol rep to see about the Transmax J Fluid. Here is what I was told. ( I have a commercial account, buying various fluids for a small fleet)

"Transmax J meets Nissan Standards but is not recommended by Nissan. We do recommend it. However, it is no longer available, we now recommend the Universal Trans fluid which is widely available in the consumer market."

Question: Since Moss-Magnuson requires acceptance of compatiable parts/filters/oils etc. Is Nissan required to provide free Trans Fluid? If not, why?
 

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No offense to anyone, but I'm getting really tired of people saying this or that will void your warranty. The Magnison-Moss Warranty Act prevents manfacturers from voiding warranties if you are using a product that complies with factory specifications. Several companies make Nissan Matic J compatable fluid. The ones that full comply are Subaru ATF-HP, Idemitsu ATF-HP, Castrol Transmax J or Pennzoil ATF-J.

I believe you have to buy it in bulk, but this site sells one of the fluids.
http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/item.asp?n=2840-042&d=19&b=1

Several sources believe that the Castrol Transmax J fluid is what Nissan rebottles and sells.

However, several people have used this "Castrol Multi-Vehicle ATF" and had some issues. Nissan Matic J fluid is synthetic or very close to it. This gives it the ability not to break down while in servere service like towing heavy loads. It also has special amounts of friction modifiers to make the clutches in the tranny engauge properly. I do not believe the Castrol Multi-Vehicle ATF is stout enough to not deteriorate in the transmission. It's not synthetic. It's also thicker at opperational temperatures than Matic J. That could cause a problem but not likely.
 

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You do not need to give this advice to people and mislead them. It could cost them thousands of dollars that some people do not have.

The magnusson moss act will not protect you in this case. Here is why. The magnusson moss act does not allow a company to tell you that you MUST use their parts or fluids. They state that IF an OEM equivalent is available that you can use it. No one has been able to PROVE that they have an equivalent to Nissan's fluids. Only claim it on websites. I have called two companies requesting in writing that nothing will happen to my transmission if their fluid is used in place of the J and they refused!

Now the problem with the difference in fluids is one ingredient. Since you know so much about it, let us know what it is and what the function is without doing any kind of search. I will give a hint, it has to do with the metal that the internals are made of.

I have an idea. I had to do lots of tests to prove myself around here, how about you do the same. The tranny's are made to last 300,000 miles or more. How about you put some different fluid in your transmission and give us reports. After all since you profit "$300,000 from a single home sale", own a "fleet of F150's" and own a "6-figure toy", tearing up a transmission would be nothing to you. Go get it done, get an analysis of the tranny fluid and your mileage and post the sample. Then get it flushed with a valid receipt and then get an analysis done every 5,000 miles and show the report. That way we can look at the contents.

After doing this, you could gladly prove us wrong. Wouldn't that be fun.:)
 

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At 30,000 miles I plan to put Amsoil ATF in and give her a run anyway. All the said fluids are listed as meeting Matic J specifications. My guess as to why Castrol Transmax J is no longer produced for US consumption is that Nissan told them they wanted to sell it exclusively.

Both Nissan and Subaru utilize this fluid. The Subaru transmissions are nowhere near as picky as ours, but they want the same stuff. Spend some time over at some Scooby sites. This discussion comes up ever 5 minutes.

I really don't think any of the above mention fluids are going to eat yellow metals BTW. Nobody would claim Matic J compatability if they knew it was going to eat a tranny.
 

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The bottom line is the warning in every Nissan Owners Manual and Service Manual.
See the attachment.
I don't care what anyone else puts in their transmission. But I'm sure not going to use a fluid that could cost me thousands of dollars if there is a transmission failure, just to save a few dollars on a fluid change.
 

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wurk4fordboughttitan said:
At 30,000 miles I plan to put Amsoil ATF in and give her a run anyway.
Amsoil ATF specifically says not for Nissan Matic J transmissions.
 

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scr38 said:
The bottom line is the warning in every Nissan Owners Manual and Service Manual.
See the attachment.
I don't care what anyone else puts in their transmission. But I'm sure not going to use a fluid that could cost me thousands of dollars if there is a transmission failure, just to save a few dollars on a fluid change.
O......K......

My F-150's booklet says to use only Ford MERCON fluid. Am I only supposed to go to Ford for transmission service?

Nissan Matic J is a specification. Nissan can't make you use only "Genuine Nissan Matic J" fluid to maintain warranty. Law dictates that they have to provide it for free if they do. In addition, last I checked, Nissan doesn't own any refineries and they don't sell crude oil. I bet you a million dollars one of the fluids I mentioned is the fluid that Nissan rebottles and sells. So if I don't use the "Genuine" fluid, and buy the same stuff in another brand's bottle it's some how supposed to void my warranty? It's ILLEGAL...

Castrol Transmax J and Pennzoil ATF-J were designed specifically to meet Matic J specifications. They also happen to cover some other specs as well. The problem is when someone makes a fluid for MERCON or another spec and thinks it's OK to recommend it for Matic J. This would be the case for Castrol MultiVehicle.

Someone show me evidence that the above mentioned fluids don't meet the specifications. If they advertise that they meet it and cause damage, they can be held liable for false advertising. Two companies called Lube Control and Specialty Formulations are actually working on additives that you can add to Dexron III fluid in order to make it into Matic J. This would allow service shops to use one type of fluid, but service many different specifications. It's done all the time for Dexron IV.

BTW, if I replace all 6 of my Fords with Titans, saving some money on each tranny change with a comparable or superior fluid can save a pretty penny. I'm not going to buy a fleet of vehicles that require me to go to a stealership every 30,000 miles in order to get raped on a fluid flush.

Amsoil fluid meets and exceeds most of the criteria for the Matic J specs. From my understanding, the friction modifiers are a little different and it is slightly thicker at operational temperatures. However, the difference between 7.5 and 6.0 centistokes is fairly negligable. On a cold start it is about 100 cSt. It's not like the tranny only sees one temperature across the world. Fluid thickness will dynamically vary anyways. I don't think it will eat any metal either. The ability to meet over 30 different specifications is slightly indicative of this.

I think all of this is just Nissan making sure that you don't put fluid that doesn't meet their specs into the tranny at a quicklube place. Matic J is simply newer to the market. More and more companies will make it as time progresses. The same discussion last year yielded only a 1 or 2 alternatives and now we have at least 4.

Most new Infiniti's and Nissan trucks use Matic J now. Subaru is switching over too.

P.S. To answer your question Shaily, GL-5 gear lube will eat copper which is contained in brass. This is why many vehicles still specify GL-4 gear lube when GL-5 is actually the tougher specification. I don't think a quality synthetic automatic tranny fluid is going to do this by any means.
 

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This is a great discussion and debate. As a admin of CT, I do want to remind all members that we at CT do not recommend using anything other then the Nissan Matic J. It may be perfectly fine using the other stuff, but don't do so thinking the forum backs this decision.
 

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Couple things to add. Just because someone like Castrol bottles Nissan Matic J fluid doesn't mean that Nissan doesn't have them change the formulation to meet the needs of the tranny. Don't know what that would be, but it happens.
Since Amsoil backs all of their products with a warranty stating they will replace anything that fails because of their products the fact that Matic-J is excluded from this is pretty indicative that Amsoil knows that it won't work. If it was close enough to get by without any problems as you claim, I would think they would go ahead and include it and stand behind it.
I'd love for there to be an alternative to the $9 a bottle Nissan fluid when it comes time to service my tranny but until someone comes out with a product and will put it in writing that it works for the Matic J I'll go with the Nissan brand.
 

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All I have to say is I look forward to the results. But after you change your fluids, you better take a look at it within a couple of thousand miles. You will see a very distinct discoloration...black.

I will go on record, saying that I hope that I am wrong. I don't want anyone's tranny to go out especially just to try and save a few dollars. But for someone that owns a $100,000 car, I cant imagine risking $6,000 just to save $45.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Don't Use the Amsoil ATF in your ATF

I called one of the AMSOIL technical guys at corporate. He flat out told me that they don't have a product that is equivalent to Nissan Matic J. As much as I like Amsoil's stuff, I won't put it in my tranny. They do have a product equivalent to the Nissan Matic "D", and one that will work in the differential.
 

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Other people's fluids have turned black because they have been cooked or filled with clutch material. One reason is the fact that Matic J is a semi-synthetic and many alternatives aren't. On the other side, a lack of friction modifiers makes the clutch packs fail to sync up quickly enough. The clutch packs wear out and the fluid heats up. Black fluid is a certainty

A PAO based fully synthetic fluid will be much more stable than the Matic J. To make up for any FM's that are missing, I'm going to attempt to put some manual transmission syncronizer friction modifiers in. You can buy it in a little bottle. It allows you to use quality gear oil in a manual transmission that needs some friction to sync up gears when granny shifting gears.

If I'm going to pay $10 for a quart of transmission fluid, it should be made by God himself. Amsoil ATF is less than $8 per quart when purchased in big pails with the prefered membership. It's also some of the best stuff on the market.

It's almost as rediculous as the $80 per liter Shell Ultra Helix 5w60 lubrication that Ferrari recommends for the Enzo. First of all, it's a group III synthetic which makes it inferior for high temperature opperation in comparison to a comparable group IV cocktail. Secondly, one gentleman found it to shear back to a 40 weight after only a couple thousand miles. No surprise with such a wide ratio spread. Ferrari only recommends it because of their racing sponsorship with Shell. Needless to say, several people have gotten as good or better results with over the counter Mobil 1. It's called price gouging and that's exactly what is being done to us.

I know Amsoil doesn't give their blessing. They have a warranty on their fluids and I doubt they would want to be liable for any messed up trucks. Hence their ill-recommendation. I know I won't have their protection, but I will at least have some useful data to share with everyone.

*edit* Yes it's compatable with D.

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx
 

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shailey said:
You do not need to give this advice to people and mislead them. It could cost them thousands of dollars that some people do not have.

The magnusson moss act will not protect you in this case. Here is why. The magnusson moss act does not allow a company to tell you that you MUST use their parts or fluids. They state that IF an OEM equivalent is available that you can use it. No one has been able to PROVE that they have an equivalent to Nissan's fluids. Only claim it on websites. I have called two companies requesting in writing that nothing will happen to my transmission if their fluid is used in place of the J and they refused!

Now the problem with the difference in fluids is one ingredient. Since you know so much about it, let us know what it is and what the function is without doing any kind of search. I will give a hint, it has to do with the metal that the internals are made of.

I have an idea. I had to do lots of tests to prove myself around here, how about you do the same. The tranny's are made to last 300,000 miles or more. How about you put some different fluid in your transmission and give us reports. After all since you profit "$300,000 from a single home sale", own a "fleet of F150's" and own a "6-figure toy", tearing up a transmission would be nothing to you. Go get it done, get an analysis of the tranny fluid and your mileage and post the sample. Then get it flushed with a valid receipt and then get an analysis done every 5,000 miles and show the report. That way we can look at the contents.

After doing this, you could gladly prove us wrong. Wouldn't that be fun.:)
Shailey;

I hope Im not the one who "owns a fleet of F-150's" as I was simply reporting what Castrol said. Certainly did not intend to endorse non Nissan J fluids. (Besides, we drive GMC's at work)

I completely agree with your statement above and will not ever take a chance on a fluid that Castrol says Nissan does not approve of. (A statement that dumbfounded me when I was told this by their rep). Good followup to the Mfg, not backing up their claims like they need too. Castrol embarassed themselves on this from my perspective.

UPDATE: Reread all post, I'm sure I'm not the F150 fleet owner now, whew.......sorry Shailey.
 
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